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Post by JG Panthers on Oct 19, 2010 12:16:11 GMT -6
Here are the results for the annual Preseason Poll done by the Horizon League:
Here's the official predicted order of finish 1. Butler 480 points 2. Detroit 381 3. Cleveland State 376 4. Valpo 312 5. UWM 259 6. Wright State 256 7. UWGB 242 8. Loyola 146 9. UIC 121 10. Youngstown State 67
First team Shelvin Mack, Butler Norris Cole, CSU Matt Howard, Butler Rahmon Fletcher, UWGB Brandon Wood, Valpo
Second team Vaughn Duggins, WSU Eli Holman, Det Cory Johnson, Valpo Chase Simon, Det Robo Kreps, UIC
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Post by JG Panthers on Oct 19, 2010 12:18:44 GMT -6
Here was Rob Demovsky's entry (please sit down before reading):
1. Butler 2. Detroit 3. Valpo 4. UWGB 5. Cleveland State 6. Wright State 7. UWM 8. Loyola 9. UIC 10. Youngstown State
How can he justify putting GB at 4th? Especially ahead of Cleveland State. I can understand us, maybe, since we're more of an unknown, but are you serious Rob? Seems like a case of being in a relative bubble, because there's no logical explanation for putting GB 4th in a preseason poll.
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Post by DunneDeal on Oct 19, 2010 12:20:09 GMT -6
Demovsky must think that since poor man is gone that they just play better on that fact alone.
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Post by Super King on Oct 19, 2010 12:20:12 GMT -6
Because he's a homer, and everyone knows it.
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Post by JG Panthers on Oct 19, 2010 12:33:33 GMT -6
Demovsky must think that since poor man is gone that they just play better on that fact alone. This would actually make perfect sense...
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Post by ghostofdylan on Oct 19, 2010 12:47:19 GMT -6
Kaylon Williams. Tone Boyle. Kyle Kelm. Evan Richard. Mitchell Carter. Ryan Allen.
No one knows how good they're going to be.
None of us know how good they're going to be. We only think we know how good they're going to be.
Fact is, practically all the rest of the league -- everyone other than Youngstown -- has more known returning commodities than we do.
That doesn't mean we won't be any good.
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Post by Pounce Needs Pals on Oct 19, 2010 13:02:57 GMT -6
Because he's a homer, and everyone knows it. He was on the sports32 roundtable and he didn't seem to be a fan of Rob Jeter, in how much money he makes.
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Post by Pounce Needs Pals on Oct 19, 2010 13:04:40 GMT -6
Kaylon Williams. Tone Boyle. Kyle Kelm. Evan Richard. Mitchell Carter. Ryan Allen. No one knows how good they're going to be. None of us know how good they're going to be. We only think we know how good they're going to be. Fact is, practically all the rest of the league -- everyone other than Youngstown -- has more known returning commodities than we do. That doesn't mean we won't be any good. It's not where you start, it's where you finish.
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Post by JG Panthers on Oct 19, 2010 13:05:24 GMT -6
Because he's a homer, and everyone knows it. He was on the sports32 roundtable and he didn't seem to be a fan of Rob Jeter, in how much money he makes. Rob Demovsky has disliked us ever since Bruce was the coach. No surprise he'd put as at 7th and GB at 4th when in reality, the opposite is more likely. Makes him look more like a fan and less like a journalist...
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Post by BBFran on Oct 19, 2010 13:39:18 GMT -6
Green Bay will be better than some people think because they have two talented senior guards, and senior guards are worth their weight in gold in college hoops. That said, they have a lot of unknowns in the front court -- and on the bench. The Horizon League is no picnic, and it's not kind to new head coaches. I don't have any problem with this poll. I would be delighted if all the contenders took it to heart and knew that they didn't really have to worry about Milwaukee.
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Post by Super King on Oct 19, 2010 14:09:43 GMT -6
I think UIC will be the team to exceed people's expectations, and I honestly think they'll finish ahead of Green Bay. But as I've said elsewhere, this is the first year where I think UWGB and Wright State's lack of size will doom them. So many other teams are just too physical.
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Post by robdemovsky on Oct 19, 2010 14:39:14 GMT -6
I always get a kick out of this board, so I'll explain my thinking, and it has nothing to do with being a homer or disliking UWM.
In fact, I really like Rob Jeter. He and I were actually trying to set up a date to play golf this offseason but it never worked out.
Anyway, here's my thinking on UWGB. Fletcher was the runner-up to Hayward for player of the year in the league last season. If you have the supposed second-best player in the league, you should be pretty good, shouldn't you? Add in Perine, who was way better than I thought last year, and Seth Evans, who is very solid, and you've got a talented backcourt in a guard-oriented league.
I think Wardle will be an upgrade over Kowalczyk in several areas. He's focusing on defense, rebounding and toughness. Kowalczyk's teams lacked those, especially down the stretch and got pushed around by CSU and Detroit in the HL tourney the last couple of years. The two JUCO guys Wardle brought in and the 7-footer should help in those areas I mentioned. Also, the redshirt freshman, Heuer, from Wisconsin Rapids is pretty close to Randy Berry, so that may be a wash. I'll admit they seem to lack 3-point shooter, and that could hurt them. But two guards as good as theirs, I don't see how they can't finish fourth.
As for CSU, I really like Cole, but I don't think they have much else in terms of skill. Yeah, they're physical and tough, but I don't think they're that skilled at all.
In terms of UWM, I liked Franklin and the big guy and think they're going to be tough to replace. I'm not high on Boyle. I'm sorry, but I think he takes bad shots. Maybe I'm tainted by the awful 3 he jacked up in the HL tourney a couple of years ago at Hinkle (against Wright State, I think) when UWM had clawed back into the game and that shot absolutely killed their momentum. Totally an undisciplined shot. Quite frankly, I think he's a guy who for every big shot he hits, will take two bad ones that will kill you. Doesn't mean I'm right, I'm just telling you what my thinking is.
Also, think about this: How much really ever separates fourth from seventh in this league? Usually it's only a game or two, so there's not much difference between all these middle of the pack teams. At least not much to get that worked up about, in my opinion. They're all flawed in some key way that will prevent them from winning the league.
Feel free to take more shots at me, though.
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Post by BBFran on Oct 19, 2010 14:54:27 GMT -6
That's an interesting take on Tone Boyle. Tone does miss shots, but he's the classic shooter who knows his role is to take shots. More than that, Tone brings size, athleticism and intensity to the position that forces the other team to account for him. He just plays faster than most kids do and never stops moving, and it's very wearing on the defender. It also creates a lot of openings for other players, and we should be able to capitalize on that better with Kaylon at the point.
If Tone stays healthy and regains the form he had before he was hurt, he can be one of the top half dozen guards in a league full of good guards; he proved that two seasons ago. He also won't have to play the ironman minutes he had to play two seasons ago, which clearly wore him down. Both Lonnie and Ja'Rob will take some of those minutes, and they proved last year they are both fine offensive players in their own right. In general, Milwaukee will have talent and depth at the guard position that will compare favorably to any team in the league.
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Post by Super King on Oct 19, 2010 14:57:45 GMT -6
Boyle was also on a team that didn't have many go-to shooters. Avo and Deonte were better inside players than shooters, and Deion, though lights-out, logged very few minutes. It was really just Tone, Ricky, and James; and of them Boyle and Franklin were the only significant-minute guards who could be counted on to take the big shot. This team doesn't have that problem; Boyle, Williams, McCallum, and Boga are all excellent outside shooters. Tone doesn't have it all on his shoulders.
There's also the fact that Boyle was logging 35 minutes a game, and by the end of the season was both tired and hurt. The deep guard rotation -- including even Evan Richard, who should contribute -- along with UWM's heightened awareness of his health will alleviate his workload. Remember, Boyle was an absolutely lights-out shooter to start the season (he torched Marquette to 7-15 and 23 points) and only trailed off as the action progressed and his injury worsened.
I expect Boyle, at least at the beginning of the year, to be a sixth man. Jeter will probably utilize the three-forward rotation that helped win the Panthers a ton of games down the stretch, and between McCallum and Boyle, McCallum is the one to have availed himself most recently. I expect fairly strict minutes limitation on Tone. So I don't even think he'll play as key a role as you do, Rob. It won't be on his shoulders.
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Post by PantherU on Oct 19, 2010 15:43:43 GMT -6
I like Rob Demovsky. We would love to have a beat writer like him down here (although Tom Enlund is great). I don't really understand the dislike of Milwaukee, but I'm just gonna chalk it up to keeping with the rivalry.
Note: I wish I hit send a couple hours ago, before Rob came on here.
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